E-Stim at Physical Therapy yesterday

Not for a long time Stacey – it took several sessions and they had to crank it up way high to get my muscle to contract the first time but once it did it worked every time after that.

Back in 2004 & 2005 my PT tried this on me, sure it would work. There was absolutely no movement below my knees & she seemed very surprised. It was because the nerves were so badly damaged that they were not sending messages for the muscles to contract. Your PT is wrong, it is the nerves that make the muscles move/work; if the nerves are damaged, there will be no message sent to the muscles. That is why I still need to wear AFOs.

Sorry to hear this Stacey! Hope the next few start working for you. Will keep you in my prayers. Cyber hugs heading your way!

I was wondering if this therapy had any hope for me. I guess not. I am sorry that it didn’t work for you. I was hoping that I could be stimulated externally to get some kind of response, but if you couldn’t, I know I can’t. My nerves are burnt toast.

Have a great day

Dick S

i was looking forward to tryin estim for my toes which are partially paralyzed. It was my understanding(not sure whether its true or not) that electricity is conducted directly into the muscle forcing a contraction and not through nerves. The stimulation of atrophied muscle can cause growth, as in the Julie’s case. The hopes for people like us are that we get good nerve regeneration with limited bad reinnervation and that when the nerves grow back there will be muscle at some kind of functional level to respond.
I might have it wrong. I also read that estim is supposed to be used to stimulate nerve regeneration. Maybe I got it wrong.

I didn’t mean to sound so negative, but in my case the nerves in my feet are severly damaged. Some of you might not have quite the extent of damage that I have… There is also a new machine now for people with drop feet, but when I called my PT he told me it would not work for GBS, as it is the nerves that are gone; but it would work for MS. I think it also sends an electronic shock down to the ankle or feet, eliminating the need for AFOs.

[QUOTE=grawplyr]i was looking forward to tryin estim for my toes which are partially paralyzed. It was my understanding(not sure whether its true or not) that electricity is conducted directly into the muscle forcing a contraction and not through nerves. The stimulation of atrophied muscle can cause growth, as in the Julie’s case. The hopes for people like us are that we get good nerve regeneration with limited bad reinnervation and that when the nerves grow back there will be muscle at some kind of functional level to respond.
I might have it wrong. I also read that estim is supposed to be used to stimulate nerve regeneration. Maybe I got it wrong.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what they told me – they were stimulating the muscle to make the nerve grow back. As I said it took a long time, the axon of my peroneal nerve was nearly cut in half so there was a lot of damage. Now that you have reminded me I distinctly remember my therapist saying that that stimulating the muscle was one way to get the nerve to reinnervate in the correct place and thus limit the bad reinnervation. I liken it to convincing your body what is needed over and over again until it gets there on it’s own.

I think one day soon there will be mobile machines that do this for us – Honda is already developing a prototype device for people with limited leg strength that senses the strength of their muscles and applies assistance when needed. Actually I think they are testing it now on their assembly line workers. This kind of interactive assistance can only be helpful to us in the long run – my understanding is that you want your muscles to be able to work as much as they can on their own but don’t want them to over work. This machine can sense when your muscles are getting weak and shakey and thus begins providing support – seems to me this would work pretty well to stimulate muscles and reinnervate without completely taking over for you as a wheelchair does. This is the third device like this I’ve seen in the news in the past year so I think it’s just a matter of time before they are available on the market – whether we can afford them is a completely different story. 😮

I have never had this done. Just exactly what do they do and does it hurt! Would like an explanation as to what this does and how or where you go to get it done. I’m interested in seeing about this. Especially for my legs! Thanks!
Linda H

My understanding of how it worked was the same as yours. The estim bypassed the normal electrical circuitry to stimulate the muscles directly. They used it on me to keep my muscles from atrophying any more. Mine was used on the core muscles as at the time I needed a brace in order to stand. When it was applied it did something….I was so fatigued after it. I would recover by the next morning but I felt like I had been doing situps for hours! I googled estim and found out that there is a more popular use for this….(What an education! 😮 ) Anyway I alse found this research about estim: [url]http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab003241.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Pam H]I didn’t mean to sound so negative, but in my case the nerves in my feet are severly damaged. Some of you might not have quite the extent of damage that I have… There is also a new machine now for people with drop feet, but when I called my PT he told me it would not work for GBS, as it is the nerves that are gone; but it would work for MS. I think it also sends an electronic shock down to the ankle or feet, eliminating the need for AFOs.[/QUOTE]

I dont think your PT is correct on estim. It can help you regenerate nerve if you are in remission and it can stimulate the muscle and through that muscle growth through direct muscular contact.

The estim afo replacement will only work for MS patients or people who have nerve damage above the peripheral level – higher in the leg etc.

There is also nerve transplants they do in thailand but if you arent in remission there is no point.

[QUOTE=Julie]This is exactly what they told me – they were stimulating the muscle to make the nerve grow back. As I said it took a long time, the axon of my peroneal nerve was nearly cut in half so there was a lot of damage. Now that you have reminded me I distinctly remember my therapist saying that that stimulating the muscle was one way to get the nerve to reinnervate in the correct place and thus limit the bad reinnervation. I liken it to convincing your body what is needed over and over again until it gets there on it’s own.

I think one day soon there will be mobile machines that do this for us – Honda is already developing a prototype device for people with limited leg strength that senses the strength of their muscles and applies assistance when needed. Actually I think they are testing it now on their assembly line workers. This kind of interactive assistance can only be helpful to us in the long run – my understanding is that you want your muscles to be able to work as much as they can on their own but don’t want them to over work. This machine can sense when your muscles are getting weak and shakey and thus begins providing support – seems to me this would work pretty well to stimulate muscles and reinnervate without completely taking over for you as a wheelchair does. This is the third device like this I’ve seen in the news in the past year so I think it’s just a matter of time before they are available on the market – whether we can afford them is a completely different story. :eek:[/QUOTE]

Im hoping I can hang on for a good solution.

Grawplyr,
You have to hang on!!!
Dawn Kevies mom