Research on Turmeric in auto-immune diseases
AnonymousMarch 22, 2007 at 6:32 pm
I think this warrants a separate thread.
[QUOTE=michaeljay]I am still pouring thru cross references with the turmeric studies.
1) some work from Texas with mice has shown high efficacy with turmeric in MS/ this gets referenced alot
2) U of Arizona has been doing arthritis work with turmeric and shown some pretty interesting results
the approach here is novel in that it eliminates the “signal” ie transcription factors that elicit the immune response as opposed to eliminating the system that responds
MS and arthritis are auto immune and share many similarities
I have found some references that I don’t totally understand that refer to similar proteins (factors that both MS and anti-mag share)
could be a novel approach and i understand major things are happen re turmeric and ms.at a numbers of universities
needless to say using rituxan is like using a sledge hammer and targeting the transcription factor seems more elegant.
of course my doc’s think Iam a very standard deviations out there.
as a starting point do a google on turmeric and MS and then arthritis. it pretty exciting.
I’d be interested in your opinion
pass the Indian curry and don’t forget the yellow mustard
The scientific research on turmeric (made from curcumae longae rhizoma) is indeed amazing. When I read some of it to Carol yesterday morning, guess what she served for lunch. Some yellow looking concoction she came up with. What makes me wonder is why not more about it is known since the research has been going on for 2 decades. I guess alternative medicine is still not very accepted in this country and probably given a bad name by the drug industry. Of course, the other side of this is that the effects of herbal preparations including spices often are rather mild and take time and patience – and, in addition, there is the endless discussion about lack of standardization and quality control. But we don’t need to worry about Indian curry There also is a website giving a long list of recipes with turmeric as ingredient.
20 years ago, I used to grow about 50 medicinal plants back in Minnesota more as a hobby than for actual use and read every book I could get my hands on. Yesterday I pulled out my “bible”, the phytotherapy textbook (R.F.Weiss, M.D., here published as “Herbal Medicine”) and a phytotherapy standards manual (Volker Fintelmann, M.D. et al – still quoted here today) used in Germany in medical school. Unfortunately, both are almost 20 years old and the only use for turmeric known at the time was for indigestion. Side effects with extended use and overdosis may be stomach irritation and heartburn since it stimulates production of stomach acid, contraindication: gall stones and gall passage occlusion. All this still holds true today.
Of course, the active ingredient in tumeric only effects the inflammation triggered by our auto-immune antibodies and not the creation of the aberrant B-cells. Also, we don’t know if the genes and transcription factors involved with inflammation are the same for MS and CIDP nor do we know why some people come down with MS and others with CIDP.
Regardless, I think it is worth trying turmeric, I will.
Thanks for posting it.
BTW, Turmeric apparently doesn’t [U]eliminate[/U] the signal involved in inflammation but only [U]reduces[/U] it.
BTW #2, I did a search. You are the first to mention it on the “new” gbsfi forum. There was no mention on the British or the German ones.
AnonymousMarch 22, 2007 at 7:27 pm
You seem to have a lot of experience w/ Europe and Asia – just wondering if you have ever come across a product called Avemar? It was developed by a Hungarian scientist (won Nobel prize in 1960’s) and is a pharmaceutical product from fermented wheat germ. In Germany it is considered as part of a standard cancer treatment, but the USA classifies it as a supplement.
At Christmas, my daughter was in a wheelchair, not able to use her legs, arms, hands. I was stressed over a very fragile dependence and delayed scheduling of ivig at the time. After several months of researching Avemar, I decided to give it a try. (Note: I am not selling anything – sharing my experience w/you because you are familiar with that part of the world where it is most commonly used) Anyway, after about a month of use, we saw improvement, and now, at three months, we are amazed. Granted, she is still receiving ivig, but her response for the past couple of months has surprised even the doctors. She is doing better now than she ever has. I downloaded citations from PubMed for our doctor to help explain it’s action. Primarily, it reduces the level of Th2 cytokines (antibody production) and in addition, acts as an indiscriminate Cox inhibitor.
One document I have been wanting to read is only published in Hungarian – it has to do with cellular metabolism of Avemar. Could I ask a special favor of you – is Hungarian language close enough to German that you would be able to read it? (duh – I’m clueless on this) If possible, I would be very grateful, as I want to know as much as possible about how this stuff works. I have a number of full discussion articles in English if this is of interest to anyone.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread – I have also read about tumeric, but wonder if it requires such large amounts to be ingested to make it impractical (until a concentrated pill form comes out).
Thanks to all for any input
AnonymousMarch 22, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Norb what is interesting is from the little I understand its actually the signaling or trigger that elicits the response that gets blocked/reduced by turmeric
i would suggest that this would reduce the “call for” antigen response very elegant treatment if efficacious
[I]I am a just engineer (only one year of chemistry) and these medical types have there own language.[/I]
the Arizona studies with arthritis are even more impressive to me given the marked similarities. Rituxan is being used for arthritis as well
I cross referenced the literature between anti-mag and arthritis and its mentions a common protein (transcription factor) I am still digging because the journals are european
cd no hijacking perceived/ the studies with mice suggest comparable concentrations to a normal diet as per references. The Arizona people attempted to match typical dosing and got good results.
the Texas study mentions the low incidence of MS in India theorizing a casual relationship with ingestion of turmeric
not relishing another round of rituxan i am enjoying my curry (3 times a day 😀 )
March 22, 2007 at 8:29 pm
PLEASE!!!! Can you send me ANY info you find on turmeric or avemar? I have a ten year old boy w/cidp and my heart is broken. If it could be so easy as to ingest a spice , it would trily be a miracle. Thanks to everyone on this site that shares info! Dawn e-mail [email]email@example.com[/email]
AnonymousMarch 22, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Dawns mom, I suggest a doing a google on turmeric and MS/arthritis. the only insight from the literature I have relates to MS and arthritis and my “hope” that there maybe efficacy for anti-mag given the “potential” similarities and the fact that all are auto immune mediated.
AnonymousMarch 23, 2007 at 12:42 am
Regarding “standardization and quality control” ~ I researched a Rx that I had an allergic reaction to by calling the company to learn what the “fillers” were . . . might one of them be wheat? And the response was “there are 4 fillers, no wheat but one is “saw dust” and the other 3, I am not certain of”. OK, so now [I]I feel so much better knowing someone in pharmaceuticals is looking out for the consumer 😡 😡 [/I]
Any time I can take an herb/Chinese medicine that will have the same and most likely better effect, I will.
AnonymousMarch 23, 2007 at 7:09 pm
[QUOTE=Dawn Kevies mom]PLEASE!!!! Can you send me ANY info you find on turmeric or avemar? I have a ten year old boy w/cidp and my heart is broken. If it could be so easy as to ingest a spice , it would trily be a miracle. Thanks to everyone on this site that shares info! [/QUOTE]
I can imagine how difficult this must be knowing your child has a disease for which no cure is available. I see how tough this is for my wife but I am old and most of my life is behind me. I’ve only had this since I was 68 – six years ago.
I started this thread hoping that others might also look at the research and help us all understand what it means. Just don’t forget, the research only has been done on mice with an MS equivalent, not on humans and not on CIDP. It also is important to know that the myelin in MS is structurally and immunologically different from CIDP.
[B]compactdisc[/B], I never heard of Avemar but then I’ve lived in the US for almost 50 years and it is difficult to keep up from over here. .. Hungarian is totally different from German. I couldn’t make any sense of it
I’ll react more some other time. I am having a horrible time typing today, probably too worn out from trying to help Carol in the garden with the little strength and balance I have left 😮
AnonymousMarch 24, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Michael, the progression of autoimmune diseases as well as other body processes is so incredibly complex and involves the interaction of so many enzymes, messenger molecules, complement, complexes, factors, cell types, genes, it is really mindboggling for a layperson like me to understand just the basics.
I dug up my biology textbooks once again to refresh my memory and still find it very difficult. I took a course in cell biology and one in immunology a couple of years before retiring and now it seems I scratched just the surface.
Here a picture of Multiple Sclerosis progression to give you just an idea of the complexity. Paragraphs in red are possible interventions. The picture does not include how transcription works which with the help of specific enzymes reads a specific section of DNA and creates a mirror copy called RNA. This in turn is read by ribosomes within the cell assembling a protein from the many different amino acid pieces “floating” around.
AnonymousApril 1, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Thanks for the reply, Norb. I knew it was a long shot. Btw, that is a fabulous picture.
Dawn Kevies mom – I’m sorry to have taken so long to reply to you – currently, I still have no computer while traveling (work). Avemar has been in use for more han 10 years in other parts of the world, and claims to have a very safe profile, but it is not recommended for children, pregnate women, those nursing, and anyone w/celiac disease. Additionally, anyone w/diabetes should consult w/their doctor before beginning treatment w/Avemar. I should have included this info w/ my original post.
I should also mention that I have not found any information in relation to cidp, but have based my decision to try Avemar on results on studies on Lupus, Artritis, MS, and cancer. I also read blogs of others’ experiences with this product. I plan writing the pharmaceutical company in Hungary that produces it in an attempt to find out if any other research is taking place w/other autoimmune illnesses, and hopefully, receive a response that will clarify why I think it is helpful for my daughter.
I understand how difficult this is for you – watching your son going through all of this. At his age, it is so hard to be patient. He should be able to run and play w/ his friends without a care in the world, but, unfortunately that will have to wait until his body can handle that type of activity again. It will take time. Until then, I hope he has a special friend that understands, and will support him in his efforts.
best wishes to you both,
AnonymousApril 1, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Not research, but I thought I would share the name of my favourite Indian cookbook:
Indian Home Cooking: Quick, Easy, Delicious Recipes to Make
by Jan Purser and Ajoy Joshi
Periplus Editions, 2003
Most of the recipes include turmeric, and the “heat” can easily be varied mainly by reducing the amount of chillies you use. Everything I have made from this book has been excellent.
April 2, 2007 at 2:51 am
I have been taking antioxidant supplements for a couple of years (See my post from May 20, 2006). I know they will not cure my CIDP but I feel they help my overall health.
My favorite commercial pill includes curcumin – which is tumeric. It also contains grape skin and grape seed extracts, green tea extract, and the usual A,C,E vitamins plus minerals. There is no substitute for a diet rich in fresh foods – but there’s no way I could eat enough each day to include all the goodies in one pill.
Look up curcumin in PubMed and you will see additional studies saying this is good for myelin.
AnonymousApril 11, 2007 at 9:17 pm
Just wondering if a Cocktail combination of Curry, Ginger and Fish Oils could help slow the Inflammatory Cytokine production. Interesting read of the Zone Diet about how certain diets and /or foods can trigger a release of inflammation. Interesting stuff to ponder about ….
AnonymousSeptember 26, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Eric check out the work thats being done at Anderson cancer center, i think your idea is good, its seems to be the central thesis of their work,
also there is a doc at the university in Arizona doing interesting research with turmeric and arthritis/ this got a lot of press when it came out
June 15, 2016 at 12:05 pm
My wife use Gaia Herbs turmeric with krill oil and it helps her CIDP .She have more balance and walk faster. It works faster and cheaper than Life extension curcumin . She takes two capsules per day and two capsules of krill oil per day with prednisone and cellcept. She said that this turmeric easy to take and she love its Chinese medicine smell .I will update the progress
June 16, 2016 at 12:45 pm
NN, this is an old thread. Most of the promoters of quack treatments have gone elsewhere. People who are afflicted with GBS or CIDP need actual medical care.
Here is an article from Science Based Medicine on Turmeric:
June 16, 2016 at 9:55 pm
My purpose is for people with cidp can read my information and follow if they want to tape off prednisone to avoid its side effect. I also read about Life extention curcumin here and after adding krill oil eith it I saw a big improvement ( similar to increase dosage of prednisobe but lot of side effect) without any side effect.
June 16, 2016 at 10:05 pm
My purpose is to share my find out about new regime for other cidp patient. I also read about Life extention curcumin from Alice’s sharing and after adding krill oil with it the regime works wonder ( like you increase doasage of prednisone). I hope it will help to tape off prednisone since long term steroids bring you lots of terrible side effect. My neurologist supports us using supplements as well.
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