Health Care

I see big changes coming in health care, I am just glad that I don’t need any treatments to keep me stable. A person wrote in our local newspaper today that he is on Medicare & it is no longer going to cover his routine diabetes & cholesterol checks. His Medicare premium was increased this year, & his supplement went up 13%. BTW he was a Democrat complaining… I am lucky that I did not need to use my health insurance this year, other than a well check-up in Feb. I am on Medicare as well.

With the new system not allowing any life-time caps, the insurance companies will just keep on raising premiums or raising deductibles, putting most people in the $3,000-10,000 deductible range. This is good for the healthy who never need to use their insurance. And now those who never bothered to pay for insurance (surprisingly a large number of healthy & fully employed people), will be able to buy it AFTER they are dx with a serious illness. And who WANTS their kids on their insurance until they are 26? Mine were all on their own once they graduated from college at 22 & got their first real job. I do realize that this is a different world though, & not all college grads are finding jobs.

I am interested in hearing from others, especially those on IVIG for maintenance. Ifind it hard to imagine that any government type of program will keep someone on costly IVIG when they think steroids will provide the same result, or the cheap immunosuppressants. I would like to see some aspects of this huge healthcare bill repealed, just so we can keep our choices. I might sound like a Republican, but I am not. Just an ill person very concerned about too many changes.

I am very worried about what lies ahead.

Right now we are one state medicaid and were just informed almost all of our dentists are being dropped from the program. Not sure who we will be able to see as of the 1st and there is a run on visits right now. And this is just the beginning.

*sigh*

I have a feeling that this is a touchy subject and will probably cause another argument, but since you asked…. I am fearing every day. I wonder how long it will be before we are forced to take steroids.
I wonder how much worse Kev’s life will be. How beneficial is a lift on lifetime benefits? Is it “real” Think about it, if high cost medical necessities such as ivig are removed and replaced with steroids, pennies on the dollar, one would have a hard time reaching the max allowed deductable of the past. Are they thinking of the ramifications of alternate less expensive drugs when others are working? Are they thinking how expensive it is going to be long term for these less safe drugs? What are the intentions? I have my own ideas of what the intentions are for sick people, my child….. but
I should probably keep them to myself. I am so scared for KEv and all of the other children. I am scared for everyone.

[QUOTE=Dawn Kevies mom]I have a feeling that this is a touchy subject and will probably cause another argument, but since you asked…. I am fearing every day. I wonder how long it will be before we are forced to take steroids.

I am scared for everyone.[/QUOTE]

Dawn,

This may be a touchy subject but it’s a subject that will affect the lives of many and not necessarily in a good way. Initially, I was gung ho and thought “wonderful, everyone will have access to decent health care, etc., etc.”. However, I didn’t consider the real cost; cheaper forms of medication regardless of the long term side effects. I don’t know what we can do to stop things from moving forward.

I pray that things won’t be as bad as we think. I really believe that’s all we can do at this point.

Take care,

Tina

Dawn,
I don’t think this is a toucy subject as long as we can keep it “real” & not make it political… I think those of us with these illnesses keep up on what is in the healthcare bill & the changes that are coming. I do believe something had to be done, as insurance companies were raising premiums like never before. My 29 year old son, who was born with spina bifida, has a $3,000 clinic deductible & a $9,000 hospital deductible. He has not been to a doctor in 3 years, he is really pushing it. When he lived with us, he had yearly urology testing to make sure that he did not have relux, or urine backing up. If he were to get another pressure sore like he had in 10th grade, it would literally wipe him out, even though he has worked full-time the same job since he was 22. Maybe I do wish he was still on my husband’s insurance?

I do worry about the exhorbitant cost of IVIG, whatever happened to the synthetic IVIG that was talked about? I see my children’s health plans going up every year, as well as their deductibles. Anyone have the answer, as I sure don’t? And now to try to insure another 30-40 million people when Medicare & SS are broke? The government might have to raise the age of SS to 70 & make it a lot harder to get disability in the future. I welcome any productive solutions. BTW our local dentists haven’t accepted Medicaid patients for years, as they actually lose money on them. Sad, but true. My best friend’s husband is a dentist.

i went to a teaching hospital that has a dental clinic. they are very good at what they do & the dentist who oversees the students check them before any work is done & then after they have finished. that is where i go to the dentist now. the dental clinic i went to takes medicaid.
its a good place to check out if you have a teaching hospital or dental school near you.
i had to travel 30 mins. away but well worth it !

Hi all of you,

This is Kathy from Canada. I don’t want to alarm you but if the US system goes “like Canada” it will completely change the way you are dealt with.

The good part is that you will never be refused a visit to a doctor or an ER department.It is universally available not dependent on having insurance. The bad news is it will be difficult to get into a doctor, particularly Neurologists and they will try the “cheapest” alternatives.

In Canada we have ended up with a” limited resource” based system. Because resources are scare (i.e not enough doctors and hospital beds) to treat an aging population, demand exceeds supply. This means that decisions on treatment are based on the “cheapest ” alternative not the “best for the patient”.

It is great in acute cases – but if you have a chronic problem treatment takes a VERY long time to access.

In the proposed US system can you still obtain services on a “patient pays ” basis? In Canada you cannot get IVIG by paying for it – it all funnels through the govenment supply (the Canadian Blood Bank).

Best to all of you,
Kathy

To me it looks like both systems suck, Canadians are just not on the hook financially forever for the same crap care

If you look at Medicare, it really can be a tremendous system. It pays against first dollar of services rendered, costs about $100 a month, and if you purchase the correct supplemental plan, you will have zero out-of-pocket costs – even if you required astronomically expensive treatments for cancer. I have been on Medicare for 5 years, with a Plan F supplement, and I’ve never had an out-of-pocket cost or access issue, and I receive IVIG every other week.

I really believe our health system should be directed towards creating a more effective preventive care methodology, as chronic issues like high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, obesity, etc are major issues that cause huge expense and strain on the system. Additionally, a grossly out-of-proportion share of the total Medicare expenditure, something like 1/3 of total costs, are expended on the final year of life. New Yorker Magazine recently published, in their August 2nd issue, an extremely powerful, sympathetic and elegant article discussing this issue. I HIGHLY recommend reading it

Additionally, the system should be evolved to compensate/reward providers for producing positive outcomes. Now, the system primarily compensates for procedures and tests, this is one reason why incoming med students are increasingly shying away from becoming general practitioners, as the money is now in specialization. I also do believe tort reform should be examined.

Although not perfect by any stretch, the new healthcare reform I believe is taking steps in the right direction in a couple of these areas. I personally do not see big changes for a Medicare beneficiary in the near term. As far as employer-based plans, that’s another ballgame that needs to be addressed at the root cause, the skyrocketing costs.

Change is difficult, especially one as complex as this, but I truly think our current system is unsustainable.

Why? History is repeating itself in a way…Take a look at what was initially ‘predicted’ about Medicare and Medicaid…look at how the first languages were presented to what they’ve evolved into. Then web up the ‘listing of medical codes’ -the code #’s used for all insurance claims…that latter list is SUPER HUGE! And medicare and medicaid don’t even scratch the surfaces – as many of us know. They are still evolving. After what? 30-40+ years?
Sooo… the new changes are gonna be both a blessing and cursed from the get-go, Why? Because insurance companies are salivating to get the most of us for the most $$$ and the least amout of coverage. There are going to be thousands of wrinkles to work out and they will eventually be worked out…just hope that they are worked out for US in time.
I, like Bill, think that it WILL work out for the better in the long term, but it’s going to be worse than giving birth- Coming out backwards and a literal pain for the duration – the results in the end? Mite just be liveable.
Hope and heart, all!

Health care in the united States is not the problem; the problem is the cost and this bill does nothing to address that. There is no reason for health care to be rationed in the free market. People who need IVIG should be able to get it. The government has no right to decide who should be treated and by what method. The current legislation is about health insurance, not health care. We need to make health care more affordable, not ration it. I am appalled at how easily many people are buying the notion that we shouldn’t treat the old, young or chronically ill if we don’t think they have a good shot at recovery. There are even those who say it costs too much and we need to decide whose life is worth saving. Really? Is that what we want? I know that I want whatever medicine or treatment is available for my loved ones. But the worst discussion is about the money spent in the last year of someone’s life. OF COURSE more money is spent when a person is most ill. Who is going to decide when a cancer patient should no longer be treated, or someone with CIDP isn’t worth getting IVIG? I have a friend right now in the final stages of breast cancer who was just put on her third drug. She may go into remission and live for years, or she may die in a few months. Should some government panel decide that her life is over and she should no longer receive treatment? I have a relative who had a premature baby that spent three months in NICU. He is 3 now and perfect. Should some government panel decide when we will
try to save the life of a premie or if a disabled child should be saved at birth?
We need only look to countries like England where people are being denied treatment because of their age or viability.

Everyone on this site knows that health care saved their lives or or the life of someone they love. This is not a republican or democrat issue; it is an issue of life and death and how much control we have over our own lives and the lives of those we love. Again, health care is NOT the problem! It is cost and availability. We can address those issues without destroying our health care.

You nailed it Boomer! Well said!

[QUOTE=boomerbabe] She may go into remission and live for years, or she may die in a few months. Should some government panel decide that her life is over and she should no longer receive treatment? I have a relative who had a premature baby that spent three months in NICU. He is 3 now and perfect. Should some government panel decide when we will
try to save the life of a premie or if a disabled child should be saved at birth?
We need only look to countries like England where people are being denied treatment because of their age or viability. [/QUOTE]

Ah, more fear mongering. “Should a government panel…”

Here’s a fact for you. In the United States right now insurance executives make those decisions. Don’t believe me?

CIGNA’s decision to deny teen a liver transplant until it was too late highlights flaws in health care system.
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
Dec. 24, 2007, 7:36PM
[url]http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/5402763.html[/url]

No government panel required. American’s have monetized end-of-life decisions already.

Don’t bother bringing England and Canada into it. We’ve already seen one idiotic American paper claim that “Stephen Hawking would be dead if he were in the UK.” Guess what? Stephan Hawking lives the in UK. No government death panels: only lies from fearmongering Americans.

How Stephen Hawking Proves That Investor’s Business Daily’s Editorial Page Tells Lies
[url]http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/08/how_stehpen_hawking_proves_tha.html[/url]

Here’s a suggestion. If you haven’t lived in England or Canada, don’t bother offering your opinions of their healthcare systems. They don’t seem interested in adopting US style healthcare, which should tell you something. And I say that as someone who lived for 25 years in Canada, and 20 in the US.

The UK and Canada have longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates than the US.

$100 000 for CIDP stem-cell treatment in Chicago, no charge in Ottawa.

[url]https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html[/url]

[url]https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html[/url]

You might have to wait longer for a boob job, but you’re not gonna die because of government ‘death panelsl’ in Canada or the UK. They simply do not exist.

Certainly not perfect, but curious places to hype as having worse health care systems.

First off, I got an EOB [Explanation of benefits] from my insurance co for my last neuro ‘visit’. Cost? X Paid?=negotiated rate of less than half the amout billed. Insruance cos…do this all the time… THEY NEGOTIATE RATES FOR BULKS and the docs take it!
No government ‘PANEL’ decides anything vis-a-vis insurance coverages? The insurance companie’s liability and compensation panels do, ergo…what it’s worth to keep you alive or not…
IT IS THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!!! If you fall for a line that the gov’t is doing it? You are one fish hooked, like and sinkered.
I can attest that medical [vis-a-vis] medicare had no decision in determining a family member’s death? 25+ years ago? In that the brain and heart functions had stopped and this member was being kept alive mechanically. In the early 90’s the Bill was staggering and covered by medicare… There were no PANELs or DEATH COUNCILS! It was a Family and a humane choice.
Everything IS negotiated? But by family or by choice it is always has been clear. IF you can’t read what’s written to YOU? BY the insurance companies? Go ask for the full detail and full monte! IF you don’t get it? Ask your congressman/woman and or senator…. That is why they have STAFF!
Just be clear about YOUR facts …dates. situation and questions… Good luck – j

First off, I got an EOB [Explanation of benefits] from my insurance co for my last neuro ‘visit’. Cost? X Paid?=negotiated rate of less than half the amount billed. Insruance cos…do this all the time… THEY NEGOTIATE RATES FOR BULKS and the docs take it!
No government ‘PANEL’ decides anything vis-a-vis insurance coverages? The insurance companie’s liability and compensation panels do, ergo…what it’s worth to keep you alive or not…
IT IS THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!!! If you fall for a line that the gov’t is doing it? You are one fish hooked, line and sinkered.
I can attest that medical [vis-a-vis] medicare had no decision in determining a family member’s death? 25+ years ago? In that the brain and heart functions had stopped and this member was being kept alive mechanically. In the early 90’s the Bill was staggering and covered by medicare… There were no PANELs or DEATH COUNCILS! It was a Family and a humane choice.
Everything IS negotiated? But by family or by choice it is always has been clear. IF you can’t read what’s written to YOU? BY the insurance companies? Go ask for the full detail and full monte! IF you don’t get it? Ask your congressman/woman and or senator…. That is why they have STAFF!
Just be clear about YOUR facts …dates. situation and questions… Good luck – j

Olav,

Health insurance is not health care! And you do pay high taxes for your coverage; it is not free. If health care is so good in Canada, why do so many Canadians come to the states for treatment? I am glad you like your system, but we don’t want it here. If we become like you, where will people from around the world go for treatment when their socialistic systems deny them care based on cost and viability? Sorry, but we are kind of used to freedom.

[QUOTE=northernguitarguy]The UK and Canada have longer life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates than the US.

$100 000 for CIDP stem-cell treatment in Chicago, no charge in Ottawa.

[url]https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html[/url]

[url]https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html[/url]

You might have to wait longer for a boob job, but you’re not gonna die because of government ‘death panelsl’ in Canada or the UK. They simply do not exist.

Certainly not perfect, but curious places to hype as having worse health care systems.[/QUOTE]

You had better read up. The UK will no longer treat women with 4th stage breast cancer and they have put age limits on dialysis, and heart surgeries. In the U.S., you are 5 times more likely to survive a traumatic injury and 3 times more likely to survive a heart attack than anywhere in the world. More people survive every type of cancer in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world. More premature infants survive in the U.S. than anywhere in the world. The U.S. is the place where people from around the world come for medical treatments that are not available anywhere else or are limited. Health care only needs to be limited when the government runs it.

babe, the US is 10X little old Canada, of course it is bigger and has many more research facilities, hence more available treatments, and yes I do agree that RICH Americans have the best access to treatment in the world, however the rest of the Western world decided long ago that health care should not also put you in the poorhouse……..folks (including Americans) go lots of places including Europe, Asia to get treatments…..obviously you didn’t check my sources from the CIA World Handbook (US publication, well-respected in academic circles around the world)…US has historically had higher rates of infant mortality, because poor folks with sick babies are afraid that the hospital costs will destroy them financially….check out the 2nd link, CUBA saves more infants per 1000 live births than the US, Canada saves 1 more baby per 1000 live births than does the US…..also, IF the US is so successful with these life-saving treatments then how come Americans are #49 in life expectancy (a number that is rising) on the CIA’s findings…..where are your sources??…you talk a lot of ‘facts’ as do the rest of you, but you never cite any sources, why should I believe any of your attacks on other health care systems without any peer-evaluated evidence?

[QUOTE=boomerbabe]Olav,

Health insurance is not health care! And you do pay high taxes for your coverage; it is not free. If health care is so good in Canada, why do so many Canadians come to the states for treatment? I am glad you like your system, but we don’t want it here. If we become like you, where will people from around the world go for treatment when their socialistic systems deny them care based on cost and viability? Sorry, but we are kind of used to freedom.[/QUOTE]

Boomerbabe, hardly any Canadians come to the US for healthcare. Some do because the Canadian system pays for them to be treated in the US. Some do because they think they know more than their doctors and want services they don’t need. Great marketing in the US medical-industrial complex — I’ve seen TV ads for medical procedures in the US; never in Canada. Freedom also allows people to be irrational and make silly decisions. Not every American’s medical choices are inspired, you know. And I don’t know of any medical survey which says that Americans get better care than in “socialist” nations. Yes, they do have more procedures: the President offered a few words about unnecessary medical “care” offered by US doctors. Perhaps you should pay attention to the debate in the medical community, not just the political theater around healthcare?

Who said anything about “free”? Don’t put words in my mouth. Yes, Canadians pay higher taxes, but much less than Americans pay in insurance premiums for the same level of care. Funny that no American on Medicare wants to drop it for private insurance: there wasn’t any beforehand, and somehow the government makes it work. Why is that do you think? How could free enterprise not serve a viable market? Or is the government working to keep people alive who aren’t “viable” as you put it? Doesn’t that contradict your own argument on “government panels?”

Oh, “we” do want better healthcare options in the US. I’ve lived here for 20 years. What are your qualifications to speak to the Canadian system? Hearsay and gossip? And it’s incredibly inane to believe that Canadians or Brits would quietly stand by while their loved ones are led off life’s stage. You think Americans have some monopoly on compassion? If so, you’ve been brainwashed by your compatriots.

As you say health insurance isn’t health care. And anyone out of work in this economy has few options in the US. Many can’t even afford COBRA payments. Read all the complaints on this board about being denied IVIG and insurance caps cutting in. Testimony in Congress about insurance companies dropping patients for failing to disclose acne. Insurance panels overruling doctors on a liver transplant! Sure, let’s give final say over medical decisions to a guy who makes his bonus by reducing his company’s medical payouts. What could possibly go wrong? That’s what you’re defending?

By the way, medical tourism by Americans is a growth industry. Many Americans are going to India to have heart procedures, and many more (750,000!) go to Mexico for dental and cosmetic work. Let me paraphrase your question, if healthcare is so good in America, why do so many Americans choose to get their healthcare abroad? You conveniently ignore facts which don’t support your opinions. When the insurance companies outsource this work — cheaper to send you overseas — will you still be singing the praises of the free market?

Oh, I don’t expect free enterprise to FORCE you to leave the country for medical care. At least not if the government threatens them with legislation requiring they offer US-treatment-only policies (non-capitalist, even socialist, as that may be). You’ll get a choice in America, land of the free. You’ll be able to pay say $50K/year/person for a policy that doesn’t require you to have (non-emergency) heart procedures in India, or $10K/year/person for one that does. Changes are coming to the land of the free. No need to disturb the great free market principles: it will be an individual’s choice, boomerbabe, for those that can afford it. And that’s the way it’s always been.

“While having, say, open-heart surgery in the U.S. costs in excess of $100,000, the same procedure at an internationally-accredited hospital in India can cost one-tenth as much. For that reason, even some insurers are starting to add foreign providers to their networks.”
— [i]MAY 17, 2009, Travel for Treatment, M.P. MCQUEEN, [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124251750976927298.html[/url] [/i]

Olav,

The number of live births may be 1 more per thousand in Canada, but that is because we have thousands of illegal immigrants who come here each year just to have babies. But mostly, you speak only of costs. And you are very wrong about the number of Canadians who seek treatment in the U.S. In just the hospitals that border Canada, from New York to Washington State, anywhere from 10 to 20 percent of the patients are from Canada and most are paying for their treatment out of pocket. As Americans, we have come to expect the best healthcare and we are not accustomed to waiting 8 months to have an MRI or having to cross the border for Cancer treatment because our government controlled system has said it is too expensive and is not available, at any cost. Yes, health care in the U.S. is way too expensive and insurance companies have put restrictions on care, but we can address these issues without having a government controlled system that rations care. Most of us want to keep our level of care but make it more affordable. What the Canadians do, I really don’t care but Canadians should be thankful that WE subsidize their care by taking on all the costs of research and development. That is just one of the reasons that our costs are so high. If you want to read about Canada’s system, though, read “CODE BLUE, Reviving Canada’s Health Care System” by David Gratzer.

As for me, I want us to maintain the best health care system in the world. I want research to continue to find treatments and cures for cancer and for rare diseases like GBS and CIDP. When I had GBS, there was no IVIG, for example. Today, most GBS patients. who are diagnosed quickly, do not become totally paralyzed and CIDP patients have gotten a new lease on life. We cannot stop looking for treatments and cures because of cost. What is a life worth?

[QUOTE=boomerbabe] In just the hospitals that border Canada, from New York to Washington State, anywhere from 10 to 20 percent of the patients are from Canada and most are paying for their treatment out of pocket. . . .[/QUOTE]

Balderdash. (See the survey for reasons why Canadians use US facilities.)

[QUOTE]Our telephone survey of likely U.S. providers of wait-listed services such as advanced imaging and eye procedures strongly suggested that very few Canadians sought care for these services south of the border. Relative to the large volume of these procedures provided to Canadians within adjacent provinces, the numbers are almost indetectable. Hospital administrative data from states bordering Canadian population centers reinforce this picture. State inpatient discharge data show that most Canadian admissions to these hospitals were unrelated to waiting time or to leading-edge-technology scenarios commonly associated with cross-border care-seeking arguments. [b]The vast majority of services provided to Canadians were emergency or urgent care, presumably coincidental with travel to the United States for other purposes. [/b][/QUOTE] (Boldface mine)

— [i]Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians’ Use Of Health Care Services In The United States,
Steven J. Katz, Karen Cardiff, Marina Pascali, Morris L. Barer and Robert G. Evans,
[url]http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/long/21/3/19[/url][/i]

[QUOTE=boomerbabe]What the Canadians do, I really don’t care but Canadians should be thankful that WE subsidize their care by taking on all the costs of research and development. . . . As for me, I want us to maintain the best health care system in the world. I want research to continue to find treatments and cures for cancer and for rare diseases like GBS and CIDP. When I had GBS, there was no IVIG, for example. Today, most GBS patients. who are diagnosed quickly, do not become totally paralyzed and CIDP patients have gotten a new lease on life. We cannot stop looking for treatments and cures because of cost. What is a life worth?[/QUOTE]

Lots of non-sequiters in your comments. And you don’t address any of the questions I had for you. Did you address the problem of the unemployed without access to insurance? Did you address the recession problems? Did you address the insurance death panels? Did you address the huge numbers of Americans traveling for their healthcare? You seem well versed in the points someone else has given you to spout off. (Where are the sources for the statistics you chime off? Why not share them?)

Did I say I wanted government run health care in the US? I said the insurance based health care system in America is flawed. Stop putting words in my mouth. (Also, while the UK has government run healthcare, Canada does not: most Canadian doctors are self-employed, or medical-business-employed professionals, not government employees.)

There was no IVIG when you had GBS. Does it follow that that treatment was invented in the US? Plenty of research going on in Canada and Europe. Heart surgery was pioneered by Barnard in . . . South Africa. I expect much research on aging will be driven by the Japanese and Chinese, perhaps India. Do maybe the French physicians, Guillain and Barré, deserve any credit for research into the treatment of GBS? Or Britain’s Landry? Perhaps these foreigners and not Americans are responsible for saving your life? Where did IVIG start? Do you know? Or are you just assuming it was an American because someone told you to put your hand over your heart and recite the pledge of allegiance?

But you do ask a very real question that goes beyond America, and is faced by all healthcare. [I]What is a life worth?[/I] How much are you willing to burden your children to keep you alive? The naive belief that no cost is too high is actively fought by those who have to contain costs: whether they’re American insurance executives, or scientific panels, or just simply people who want their children to have a nice life. To argue that only socialist systems face that issue is incredibly naive, and demonstrably false.

Olav,

Your condescending remark about the Pledge of Allegiance says it all. I know exactly who you are and what you represent. That huge chip on your Canadian shoulder cannot hide your utter contempt for this country.

What is a life worth? Let me answer you in the most jingoistic way I can.
EVERYTHING, when it is the life of someone I love. I will not forfeit the lives of those I love for the “common good”, which is an atheistic and socialistic philosophy. And I certainly won’t sacrifice a single minute of life or pay one penny for someone like you who believes that some lives are worth more than others. You are on your own. If you want socialism, go back to Canada.

[QUOTE=boomerbabe]
I will not forfeit the lives of those I love for the “common good”, which is an atheistic and socialistic philosophy. And I certainly won’t sacrifice a single minute of life or pay one penny for someone like you who believes that some lives are worth more than others. You are on your own. If you want socialism, go back to Canada.[/QUOTE]

gee Babe, turn the other cheek

I wouldn’t say ‘atheistic’…..Christ had no time with the elites of his time and instead spent his time among the beggars, thieves, prostitutes, diseased, lame, basically what Marx referred to as the ‘lumpen-proletariat’ ….he was helping the worst off in society……I suppose that means that Christ had socialistic tendencies especially as he died for the common good……I have yet to read scripture that says you should turn your back on the worst off, rather quite the opposite.

Given that the Scandinavian countries have nobody living below the poverty line while their citizens still live a high quality of life (including the highest life expectancies in the world, check it out:
[url]www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2046.html?countryName=Iran&countryCode=ir&regionCode=me&#ir[/url]……. I guess these secular ‘socialist’ countries have taken Christ’s message of helping the worst off seriously….. as far as I know, the extremely successful Volvo, IKEA and Nokia companies have not been strangled by their countries’ ‘socialistic’ leanings and have benefited by not having to deal with arranging health care for their employees.

As for socialism in Canada, it was largely killed off by federal and provincial govts. in the 80’s-90s. Much of the social safety net was dismantled. Suddenly the streets of cities like Toronto had a homeless ‘problem’ and more luxury cars on them. However, it was no problem at all, govt just cut off funding for homeless shelters and voila, there’s the reason for more poor in the streets.

However, little pieces of legislation considered ‘socialist’ at the time have endured. I’m referring to the banking regulations that were imposed by our previous centrist Liberal government. At the time they were decried by our current Conservative right-wing govt (trade you for Obama anyday) as hindering the free-markets. Guess what? No Canadian bank has been bailed out by taxpayers and now the current far-right govt takes credit on the international stage for being smart regulators. No bubble-burst and my money has not gone to feed the rich (bankers) but to still invest in hospitals, roads etc. Canadian banks have made great headway into the US (I love the TD Garden in Boston!)

And again, as a Canadian (living close to the border) who knows lots of Canadians (who else would I know lots of?), only one went south for a now more readily available surgery in Canada, paid for by the public healthcare system in Ontario. Though you were sidetracked by responding (with some tasty shots and accusations) to sarcasm you have not responded to challenges to your assertions about Canadians having to seek care in the US and our govt. ‘death panels’. How come us Canadians have never heard of these and laugh when misguided Americans point to these phantoms as evidence of horrific practices in our health-care systems?

[QUOTE=TJRPT6]Just got my open enrollment forms for the 2011 year. Some interesting changes. no more lifetime Max. it states no annual limit. Children up to 26 yrs old must be covered, and no pre-existing condition for under 19. This is positive. especially if coming close to lifetime max I know many were worried about. The preexisting condtion thing has to go. Basically, I can’t change my jobs if I had to b/c, i would not be covered for a year. so that means Even if I could up my salary by 10-20K, the nerve damage would trump the upgrade.
So stuck where I am. I like my job, but if I lost it due to the economy or disabiltiy, finding new work and being treated could be disasterous.

I am biting my finger nails about the future, but trying to remainoptimistic about the outcome. For many of us it took years and years to both become diagnosed and sucessfully treated, so disturbing that is Disturbing. I also know there are alot of moms and dads out there caring for youngsters with GBS/CIDP, I have a daughter with a wicked case a Crohns, I get a littly unsettled out of fear for her and the care she will have available. I would pay every red cent I have and sacrifice my life for her if I had to, to keep her healthy and have a full life, I know any parent would. Just Pray for a positive outcome. Vote this Nov for the officials that will be compassionate for those who medically suffer, or who you trust will do the right thing in your eyes.[/QUOTE]
Hey TJR, Sorry for participating in the defense of my country’s health care system. I like to take ignorance and fear head-on.

Seems like the ‘socialism’ you feared has legally made your insurance company behave as though the healthcare of it’s clients trumps the bottom line. Hopefully, a govt system emerges so you are free to find the new employment you seek without giving up healthcare benefits for a year, which sounds completely absurd to a socialist, er Canadian.

Best for your recovery and for better healthcare for all everywhere. (Sorry if this message sounds communist to the right-wing faithful here, I just happen to give a crap about the common good)

[QUOTE=TJRPT6]Folks,

ON ANOTHER NOTE:

Just got my open enrollment forms for the 2011 year. [/QUOTE]

We just received ours as well. I’ve noticed some of the changes you mentioned, though I haven’t yet pored over all the addendums, etc,.

I did notice that’s is financially feasible for me to stick with my current coverage. The deductible is high, however, once reached (usually within the first 4 months of the year), everything is covered at 100% which is a blessing.

I don’t have any data or significant information to add, but I’m still praying.

Hope everyone has a great day and weekend!!

[QUOTE=boomerbabe]And I certainly won’t sacrifice a single minute of life or pay one penny for someone like you who believes that some lives are worth more than others. You are on your own. If you want socialism, go back to Canada.[/QUOTE]

Uh, you got that backwards, boomerbabe.

Socialists are the one’s who believe that all lives have equal value, and no one should be denied services because they can’t afford them. Capitalists believe that if you can’t pay for the services you need, you still shouldn’t get them for free.

When confronted with facts that refute your opinions, you seem to retreat behind the flag. That won’t help improve healthcare in America. Best of luck to you.

I was trying to stay out of this conversation but I just wanted to add about the end of life care….

My Grandma was in failing health for years. The last 3 months of her life were spent in & out of the hospital. She was clearly dying & it was clear that was the best thing that could happen for her, but the dr’s kept running tests & wanting to do more surgeries on a broken foot.

She died after drinking some fluid in preparation for heart tests. She was in a room with 2 nurses, drinking the fluid & had a heart attack. She coded & the nurses proceeded to do CPR. After around 40 minutes her heart started beating again, a short time later she coded again & this time they worked on her for nearly an hour before they got a heart beat again. My Grandma laid in bed for 24 hours completely brain dead until we convinced my aunt (who secretly got power of attorney) to pull her off life support.

Sometimes letting someone die in peace is better than running tests & doing procedures. There was no dignity in the way my Grandma left this world. She spent the last few months of her life in pain & in agony. She had bruises all over her arms from the daily blood draws. Her meds were switched constantly & even she couldn’t keep track of what she was on. She was stuck in a dark hospital room & the only time she got to be in the fresh air & sunshine was when she was being transported via ambulance between her house & the hospital.

I think we need to learn when it’s time to just let someone go. My Grandma’s last few months of life could have been so much better if she could have been home (I wanted her in my home so I could care for her), resting & visiting with her grand-children & great grandchildren while sitting on the porch smelling the summer air & watching the trees sway in the breeze.

So yeah…I’m glad there won’t be other families going through what we did with my Grandma. I know my family isn’t the only family that had to sit by & watch their loved on go through this kind of thing.

I’m also glad kids can stay on their parent’s health plans until 26 &, of course, I’m thrilled with the pre-existing condition changes. Change isn’t easy but something had to give.

The reality of the current health insurance system here in MI (and I’m sure all over the country) is that many people without insurance go into the ER for regular health care because they don’t have jobs &/or can’t afford insurance. That eventually makes the premiums go up for everybody else – companies cannot continue to pay such high premiums so they pass that on to their employees. Then people have to decide to pay their mortgages, put food on the table for their kids or pay for health care. Since you have to feed your kids & if you happen to have a chronic condition or one of your children does, then you have to keep your health insurance, so you choose to not pay your mortgage. Your house then goes into foreclosure, your property taxes aren’t getting paid & your state loses money to pay for police, firefighter, teachers, etc. Then the vicious cycle continues.

My opinion is that the current system was only really truly working for insurance companies & not the citizens of our country. I’m not 100% pleased with all of the changes but I’m optimistic that, in the long run, it will be better for my daughter.

Kelly

gee TJR, sorry you cant handle a little debate, and dont feel sorry for me, worry about your own fears of a ‘socialist’ takeover of American healthcare or your fear of losing your ‘Cadillac status…..you made this political with your opening post, and furthered that when you uttered your ‘amen to that’ to a mouthful of FOX NEWS propaganda…….posts only take a few minutes, became quite proficient at writing while earning two degrees…..sorry you only see negativity in my posts, people often see hostility when their views are challenged, mostly what I wrote about was cold facts backed up with rock-solid sources……

I hope that you get to proceed without living in so much fear, in case I get ‘cleared out’ so that all members only parrot the Tea Party line, good luck!

-written in 2.5 minutes!

Like Tim, I was so hoping that this thread would become a wealth of information, as I was interested to hear from many different members as to how they might be affected by the new healthcare bill, good or bad. Early on, I asked not to make this thread political, but that’s where it seems to have gone. What does it matter what news station one is watching, I am an Independent & would prefer to get my news from Fox than from somewhere like MSNBC or CNN. Actually, I think ABC is the best at showing both sides of most issues.

NorthernGuitarGuy, this is not the first time you have been at the base of an argument. You don’t even post a first name, rather unusual for this forum. You live in Canada, so why make this thread political? You recently started a thread wanting to hear from those with GBS who made a full recovery. I told you that those people usually don’t feel a need to come to a forum, as they get on with their busy lives, as most would. You mowed your entire lawn & were throwing hay bales into a truck? I coud only dream of doing either… You came down with GBS around June & walked out of the hospital after like 10 days? Don’t quote me, as I am just going by what I can remember offhand, too tired to look up old posts. Some of us have not been so lucky, I was in a powerchair for almost 3 years unable to walk, no use of my hands. That is a long time, & not easily forgotten.

I am the least argumentative person you could ever find, but I am beginning to find your posts condescending, arrogant & offensive. Tim has been around this forum for a long time, I have been on it for 8 1/2 years. He is right, it used to be a great active forum, how much it has changed. I would hate to see someone like you, who is really just passing by, alienate someone like Tim. Last year in Feb I posted a very long story of my battle with CIDP, all of the IVIG treatments I had, PE, & solumedrol; all to no avail. I then posted how it was cytoxan that finally arrested my CIDP & allowed me to at least walk again, albeit with AFOs. Others came on to criticize my protocol & it turned into a battleground on my thread. Two members who had never posted before, wrote very negatively of some of our members & now they hardly post at all.

People come on here asking, sometimes begging for help, when first hit with GBS or CIDP. Those of us who have been around a long time & have read thousands of posts over the years, have a wealth of information to try to help them. I don’t want to offend you, but I am sure I probably have. My point is, I hate when these threads get turned into arguments, my entire thread from last Feb was removed, & it took me a very long time to write, as I type with two fingers. What a shame as on this thread I believe there are some really good posts, very well thought out. Let’s all really think out what we write & try to keep politics out of it!

PS I am exhausted, past the brick wall & know I probably shouldn’t have written this, but I care a lot about this forum…

sorry folks, Pam’s right, this thread brought out the arrogant worst in me

I recently enjoyed the hospitality of two wonderful Americans one of whom has cidp and paid a lot for a procedure that would have been covered for her in Canada…she was fortunate and grateful for her fortune and the help of friends who helped raise funds….we thought a lot about what her outcome would be if she was poor

I was glad to see your post, as I have read so many other posts of yours on the GBS forum & know how actively you have tried to support many people sticken with GBS. If we all keep this thread on track, it can be a great thread. Now, let’s hear from more members on how they believe this new healthcare bill will effect their current insurance, this is an important & interesting topic. You lurkers, get on here & post!

Pam,

My mother was 83 when she suffered a series of small strokes that left her bed ridden. We “kept her comfortable” until she died three months later. I was her medical power of attorney and had to make all the decisions. It was gut wrenching but I followed my mothers wishes. She decided that she did not want extraordinary measures taken to be kept alive, as did my father who died from cancer 40 years ago. The point is, THEY decided their course of care; not another party. My fear is that care will be rationed and the elderly, the very young or those stricken with rare diseases will end up on the short end of the stick. Many of the people on this site need IVIG, which is very expensive and CIDP is rare. We must all be vigilant and be ready to fight for this life saving treatment if is curtailed by the government or insurance companies. I will be voting on November 2nd for candidates who support repeal. This is my personal opinion.

As to how this will affect me personally…My husband and I are self employed and have a Health Savings Account with a high deductible. The mandates in the health care bill will force us to go from paying 6000 dollars a year to 12,000 dollars. Double what we are paying now. Every small business owner I know is going to take a hit and will be forced to provide mandated coverage for employees. They may be eligible for a 35% tax credit, but that will do little to offset the huge increases. No one is hiring because of this and many business owners are saying that they will either have to lay off people or close. Also, many of the doctors, where I live , are no longer accepting Medicare or Medicaid patients. I don’t know what those people are going to do. This bill has a lot of unintended consequences and even President Obama is now saying that health insurance costs are going to rise. I thought that making health care more affordable and available was what this whole debate was about.

My husband is retired from a large steel company, actually the largest steel company in the world. The buzz is that it would be a lot cheaper for them to just pay penalties than to offer the same type of coverage that we have enjoyed for 33 years. I guess the next contract negotiations are going to be primarily about healthcare, the guys trying to keep what they have.

I sure feel for all of the small businesses out there, it just seems like they are getting hit in every direction, not just healthcare. If only people would begin to realize that city, state, & federal government jobs do not generate any money. I was a school teacher before I got CIDP, & it never occurred to me that I was taking out of the system, even though we paid into income tax. I now see that so many of the necessary services like teachers, firemen, policemen, etc. do not generate money, like the private sector does. So what is the answer here?

Pam

I believe that we can lower costs and make health care more available by allowing it to be sold across state lines. In my state, there are only 3 insurance companies. Why can’t we, as consumers, buy health insurance like we buy car insurance? Why can’t we choose our level of coverage and what we want covered. I should not be paying for pregnancy, drug rehab or men’s prostrate exams. These are just a few of the things mandated by the state that are included in MY policy. The health insurance industry is protected, like no other. Also, there have been instances where groups of doctors have offered health coverage in a medical center that is inexpensive and all encompassing. In New York, a group of doctors offered unlimited checkups and treatment from GP’s and specialists (within the group), tests, outpatient surgeries and a prescription plan for $165.00 a month, per person. This amount also included catastrophic coverage for things outside the network. The Federal government stopped them because they said they were in effect offering insurance outside the guidelines of the state. The only way we can bring down health care costs is to allow health insurance to truly be free market based. And then, of course, there is the high cost of
malpractice insurance that is tacked onto everything health related. My doctor of 35 years, retired because malpractice rates kept rising, even though she had never had a claim against her. She had a private practice and said that after she paid her insurance, paid her nurse and secretary, her rent and utilities; there was nothing left. She had two choices; charge much more or retire. She chose the latter.

Because Medicare reimbursements are just a fraction of what the normal cost to a patient is, many doctors are refusing Medicare patients. I don’t think that most people understand that Medicare does not reimburse doctors at the same rate as insurance companies, so doctors up their prices to those not on Medicare. I am not sure what the answer is to this but I do know that, in the health care bill, there are 500 million dollars worth of cuts in Medicare. They say that these cuts will be made up by going after fraud, but they have been saying that since medicare was enacted. I would not hold my breath.

My son takes care of all the IT for an 11 clinic system here in northern MN, & he was the first one to tell me about this low Medicare & Medicaid reimbursement & how much money his clinics lose because of this. Some doctors & clinics are no longer accepting Medicaid, how long before they won’t take Medicare? I had great insurance through my husband, but had to go on Medicare when he retired in 2007. So far I haven’t had a problem, but we go to the same GP at the same time each year, for the exact same check-up, & it is amazing how much more his insurance pays on his bill then Medicare does. The doctor just has to write off the difference. I don’t have any great answers, but I do know that my car insurance (Progressive) is so cheap because we are safe drivers in a pool of riskier drivers.

I think the concept of getting away with caps on insurance sounds great in theory, but in the end, someone else will have to pay for it. Back in 1981 when my son was born, he had to spend a month down at the UofMN hospital. There was a child in a coma across from him who was 3 years old, & the nurses already called him the million dollar baby. He would live out his life there, I have no idea whatever became of him. I was $478,000 into our insurance company before cheap cytoxan infusions arrested my CIDP. If I had had to stay on IVIG & PE I would have exhausted the insurance cap I had a long time ago. What is right, I don’t know.

My mother-in-law has been in a nursing home for the past few years. She is private pay & my husband writes out the check out of her checking account every month (she has severe dementia.) She is the only private pay resident there, the govt. pays for everyone else. I don’t know the answer to this quandry either…maybe if one can’t pay the family takes care of them? Whoever said Medicare or SS would take care of all of the elderly when they get older? Another interesting point to think about…

My husband has always said the government should have a catastrophic plan to cover those who are the worst off. No one should lose their home or have to declare bankruptcy because of illness. All other health care should be paid for through private health insurance or paid directly by the individual. I have been without insurance many times and doctors have charged me less than if I had insurance. One of the main reasons that costs are so high is the fact that people want insurance or the government to pay for everything. We cannot have a good, inexpensive health care system if people feel no obligation to pay for it. A friend recently called me, upset that her husband had been laid off and when they went to pay for the health insurance, which his company once provided, it was 1200 dollars a month. They only paid 200 dollars a month. i explained to her that 1200 dollars was what the company her husband worked for was paying. People have no clue how expensive health insurance really is because many have never paid for it; it is provided by their employer or the government.

When medicare began, it was supposed to be a tax funded safety net for the elderly who have the highest health care costs. Instead, it has become the main reason for sky rocketing health care costs and is the most fraud ridden program in the federal government. Now, the government wants to raise the medicare tax AND cut 500 million from it’s budget, along with rationing service based on age, viability and cost to the system. I don’t have all the answers, but I am pretty sure that the way we are going is not the right way.

My husband has always said the government should have a catastrophic plan to cover those who are the worst off. No one should lose their home or have to declare bankruptcy because of illness. All other health care should be paid for through private health insurance or paid directly by the individual. I have been without insurance many times and doctors have charged me less than if I had insurance. One of the main reasons that costs are so high is the fact that people want insurance or the government to pay for everything. We cannot have a good, inexpensive health care system if people feel no obligation to pay for it. A friend recently called me, upset that her husband had been laid off and when they went to pay for the health insurance, which his company once provided, it was 1200 dollars a month. They only paid 200 dollars a month. I explained to her that 1200 dollars was what the company her husband worked for was paying. People have no clue how expensive health insurance really is because many have never paid for it; it is provided by their employer or the government.

When medicare began, it was supposed to be a tax funded safety net for the elderly who have the highest health care costs. Instead, it has become the main reason for sky rocketing health care costs and is the most fraud ridden program in the federal government. Now, the government wants to raise the medicare tax AND cut 500 million from it’s budget, along with rationing service based on age, viability and cost to the system. I don’t have all the answers, but I am pretty sure that the way we are going is not the right way.

About the nursing home, there are others paying, you just don’t know their financial situation. For instance, if she worked when she was younger, or if your husbands father had a pension, those checks get applied to the nursing home bill first via direct deposit, then your husband is paying the remainder. So others that are on the floor also most likely have at the very least social security if not a pension, they are paying something. As well, if there are life insurance policies with cash value, the nursing home gets those too. So people do pay. For instance, my fathers pension and social security comes to $5800, the monthly cost is $6100, because he is on financial aid, the gov picks up the rest. They are still getting a sizeable chunk from my father it is not free.

You are right Dawn. To be eligible for nursing home care under Medicaid, you must first deplete almost all of your assets. In my state, you must give the nursing home everything except 2500 dollars.

My mother-in-law’s SS & all of her pensions (she had 3 of them) all go into her checking account, not the nursing home. Then my husband just writes a check once a month for the full amount. I am aware that any SS one gets would go to the nursing home, pensions as well. But when tax time came & we needed the paperwork to get her taxes done, we had to call the nursing home for it; they said that it had been so long since they had a private pay patient, that they didn’t remember what to do. There are only 24 residents in this nursing home, however, so that might be the reason. They also told us that they get as much from the govt. as from those who do pay, I was surprised. We don’t mind that all of her money is going there, as they are the ones taking care of her, we could never do it (she has episodes of beligerent behavior & has tried leaving twice during the night.)

I am just wondering what people did before there were nursing homes, did the family manage to somehow take care of that person? My grandparents were never in a nursing home, were able to die at home. When did it all change…I remember when my husband’s grandmother went into the nursing home 32 years ago, and her 4 children each had to pitch in & make up the difference between her SS & the total cost. BTW back when FDR signed the SS law into effect, the lifespan was 65 years, that is why they made it that age. I think the whole system needs to be revamped, as it is going to go broke. What are we leaving for our children, some mess…my children are already telling us that the baby boom generation has ruined SS & Medicare for them. I feel bad when they say this. What will it be like for those who are around 30 now, wil they ever be able to retire? Just wondering…

No graphs, or scientific proof, just recollection of my grandparents living with us…. I think say 40 years ago, cancer obviously was dx later, so people died from breast cancer as was the case with my grandmother, compared to today. Diseases just weren’t treated or dx as quickly as they are today, therefore people died quicker and earlier. For instance my dad, 84 with Lewy body dementia, had congestive heart failure among other ailments that were treated with in the last 15 years. 25 years ago those things would not have been treated and he never would have lived to 84 to spend a long time in a nursing home with this dibilitating dementia. For that matter, I don’t think dimentia is necessarily on the rise, it is just apparent now because people live long enough for it to manifest itself (as well, the geriatric population is higher because of modern medicine now, than it was years ago) Hence the need for nursing homes. 40 years ago, it was a quicker process when suffering from an illness, hence the ability for family members to take care of their own. When I visit that nursing home daily watching the deterioration day to day of all of those residents, it breaks my heart and scares me of what is to come of me, us…..

On a lighter note, What is draculas favorite holiday? OK are you ready????
FANGSGIVING!!!! HA HA

[QUOTE=Dawn Kevies mom]

On a lighter note, What is draculas favorite holiday? OK are you ready????
FANGSGIVING!!!! HA HA[/QUOTE]

Really, Dawnie??? 😀

Thank you for that bit of laughter as my workday has gone on…..forever. Back to the salt mines!!! 😉

Dawn,
Great post, brought up more than I had thought of. When I go to the nursing home I also get so depressed, never want my mother to have to go there. But she is 85 (sharp as a tack mentally,) & if she were to have a stroke or need a lot of physical care, not sure how we would handle it. I am left pretty disabled & even my husband has a bad back, but it would break my heart if I had to put her there. With his mother it is different, she doesn’t even know where she is, or really who we are when we go there. But my mom took care of me for 9 months when I came out of Mayo…

It would be nice if somehow families could band together & take care of mom & dad, but Dawn is right, with the advancements in medical care, people are living longer & many of them with severe dementia. Our government is paying for this, I believe this is an area where we need some kind of solution. And I am not referring to “death panels.” Any ideas on this one?