natropath visit and leaky gut

    • February 13, 2010 at 2:57 pm

      We just returned from the natropath. I am going to share the info, but I am hoping it will be read with a grain of salt for you to research and make up your own minds of speculation or possibility. I am not suggesting or condemning the procedure as I am in the inquisitory, maybe skeptical place myself. I hope this is enough of a disclaimer to prevent any more arguing because I don’t want to do that, I just want to offer info nothing else. OK here it goes, please no judgements, it is taking courage to suggest this, I freaked out just hearing it.

      So, we have done some blood work,stool, and elisza (in depth RAST aka allergy test urine saliva.) we should get results in about 3 weeks.. Anyway, the doc does suspect leaky gut as well as he said the immune system needs to be reset. He mentioned t-cells, and not doing what they should. I have been questioning the imunol. for 2 years on that. A while ago I was on a tangent about the thymus gland and t-cells, t-cell receptors and a small window of opportunity (age 50 max) for the thymus gland to correct this stuff. They just looked at me. Well this doc said it to me, not knowing that I already had considered this concept that rebalancing the immune system will get rid of this crap. So he said you need to rebalance the immune system through hemalytic therapy and I said how do you do that. OK… Here it comes…. EGGS OF THE WHIP WORM:eek: So now I am like ok… In the car I am going psycho thinking no way this is crazy. So I looked it up and I am reading info and when I started reading from the wikipedia website I was confirming what I thought, this is crazy. Right before the end….They said it is being used for ibs, crohns and various inflamatory process’s and getting rid of ms. I am so scared, confused, and yet excited to think what if it is that simple. On the other hand, I am wondering howw could I put worm eggs that are parasites into my kid. I was encouraged to see the suggestion on wikipedia, as I was expecting only natural sights selling a product to promote it. Obviously this info is only an hour new to me so I am absorbing, thinking, researching and just wanted to share it with you. I do remember reading in a few of the articles/abstracts that I have complied about a worm, but not a specific name that I remember. As well, I did read about a dying off period in the begining, where you feel worse before better. I asked the doc and he said they can use something to help with that. I imagine it would be some sort of detoxification. He said the whole thing takes about 3 months. He did a full physical and Kev still had all of his reflexes I was worried about that since we have weaned from 140g monthly to 50g. Kevin also surprised me by doing these things called chair push ups in the waiting room while we were bored. YOu put your hands on the arm rests and lift your entire body. These two things are promising as I have been nervous about the reduction in ivig. Maybe as mentioned by neuro and immunol. puberth is resetting the immune system along with the ivig modulating things for so long. Maybe if we get rid of this leaky gut thing we could keep the immune system permanently off and be on our merry way. I hope I have not offended anyone and I am not saying this is “the” cure or even “a” cure, just some info to pass along for your research as well as mine. I would like to is amazing how these docs know ALL parts of the body and how they relate. He knew every neurological thing I mentioned as well as gastro and allergies. They are really intelligent, it blew my mind how one person could know so much. We know about these things because they are our bodies. But specialists really are only well versed in their fields. Not that
      I mind that as it insures they know everything about that problem. It is just amazing, that is all.

    • February 13, 2010 at 3:30 pm

      Ok, so I am reading more, the whole dog connection is scary:eek: But at the end of the wikipedia article it says it is currently being tested for ms??!! If you guys find any info positive or negative, can you please post it?

    • Anonymous
      February 13, 2010 at 3:46 pm


      p.s. take with a grain of salt.

    • February 13, 2010 at 4:00 pm

      Thanks for the info Alice, I hope everyone gets a chance to read it and is thankful for the contribution that you have made.

    • February 13, 2010 at 4:05 pm

      Upon further reading, apparently the University of Wisconsin has done testing on it and the FDA has already approved it for testing on ms patients Chrohns and ibs. The MS resource center is also speaking positively of it. It is so overwhelming to even hope that there really is a connection between leaky gut, (gut being 70-80 % of immune system) auto immunes and this theory. Apparently because the worms are from a pig they do not pose a problem to humans, if they do apparently there are drugs or remedies for that. If anyone finds negative info can you please forward it?

    • Anonymous
      February 13, 2010 at 4:55 pm

      I’m really interested in this for Emily. She’s still having the random stomach pains & we just can’t figure it out.

      I did a quick search. Apparently a Phase 2 trial started on this treatment for MS.

      Here is a link to the Science Daily article:


      There is also an article here:

      Look for volume 305 from July 9th 2004. It’s called “Can worms tame the immune system”

      Thanks for the info Dawn!


    • February 13, 2010 at 5:58 pm

      It sounds like maybe because they are pig worms, they die off in people and that is how the pro-biotics ore formed????

    • February 14, 2010 at 8:48 pm

      I did more digging, apparently under the site you can read an article about these worms and the gov acknowledges it works for crohns and probably other immunol. issues. The gov does not make the statement that the gut causes the autoimmunes, but you can gather that info from other sites. The MS Resource center lists the use of the pig whip worms for ms remission specifically in their article. I still have reservations regarding a human not being able to be a host. If we can accept a heart valve from a pig and there is pig to human transference of swine flu, I wonder about the host issue. Worst case scenario you would have to be dewormed. Actually, the theory is that autoimmune disorders are less prevelant in areas of the world where people are exposed to these or other types of worms because they have a healthy gut via the probiotics given off by the worms. Apparently because we live in too clean of a society we have not allowed worms, bacteria etc. to allow into our system maintaing a healthy gut??!!

      Well maybe I should just stop cleaning the house!

    • Anonymous
      February 14, 2010 at 9:07 pm

      this may present a “cure” for the collateral damage:

      p.s. i can’t vouch for it personally and one should check with their doctor first– and, as always, take it with a grain of salt.

    • Anonymous
      February 15, 2010 at 5:05 am

      It figures – I spent 3 years in Botswana Africa and never even got a cold… lots of other folks ended up with worms and other delightful parasites, or worse, but I was completely healthy the entire time. I even inhaled half the Zambezi river when I nearly drowned and got no worms, no pneumonia, not even a lingering cough. :p

      Thank you so much for all your research Dawn… when my latest (and last) IVIg headache goes away I’ll tackle some research myself. I can hardly see the screen at the moment. BTW I’ve been trying to be relatively faithful to eating active cultured yogurt (probiotic) every day. I hate the texture but since I can’t really taste it anymore I eat it anyway. I’ll be honest and say it is making a difference. I haven’t had one of those gut stabbing pains in about 10 days now.

    • Anonymous
      February 15, 2010 at 7:34 am

      OMG Dawn,

      What a find here from the naturalist. I have always felt that human health begins in the Gi Tract.

      I personally have discovered that my pains have dropped dramatically since going Gluten Free 3 months ago, and being my daughter Kelly has a pretty serious case of Crohns, believe in a link.
      Kelly’s small gi was leaking protein into the stool. I am sure toxins enter the blood as well causing the human body to react to those toxins.

      Everybody has stuff living in them, if we only knew what was in us now, we would probably freak out.

      It doesn’t suprise me one bit that ingesting these whip worms may help speed up and heal a damaged GI tract, keeping bowl toxins out of the blood and reducing total inflammation or immune response.
      Also to isolate what caused that situation in the first place. Certain foods, conditions or exposure to something whether a one time thing or repetative.

      Pretty interesting topic and research. I am very curious about this for Kelly and myself. Thank you very much for sharing this. –tim–

    • Anonymous
      February 15, 2010 at 11:34 am

      c I was told by my holistic doc that these parasites in your digestive track will ususaly cause trouble at a full moon. Something to do with the reproductive cycle. I have had severe bouts of diverticultis in the hospital. My problems began after mission trip to Porto Rico. I tryed not to drink water from there but It was just to hot to not. Well all the guys
      I went with developed intestinal problems. The parasites supposebly burrow into the sides and lay there eggs or waterever they do to reproduce. He subscribed large doses of aregano. It has worked. Every time i feel an attack coming on I take 5 Aregano pills 2 times daily till the cramps and pains go away. By the way years ago people would de worm in Europe up untill the last 50-100 years.the full moon thing is real.

    • February 15, 2010 at 11:56 am

      As I mentioned, I am not saying I am signing up yet. Apparently the eggs of the PIG whip worm can not survive in us the host once they have hatched. Apparently they die after about two weeks and this die off is what makes the probiotics and the t-cell production happen. The probiotics apparently reboot the immune system. My worry is that perhaps they could survive in us as a host since humans do not reject heart valves from pigs and the transference of hini from pig to human. I am going to try to contact the docs from u of wisconsin and iowa. The gov. recognition of the process working is intriguing. Other than some of the patients needing to ingest the pills after three months because the remission has subsided, I can’t find any negative. There has to be, otherwise I don’t know why every ms,crohns ibd isn’t doing it.

      Also, I am not saying this is to put cidp into remission, I am focused on our gastro issues as they are at the forfront of our problems. While weaning from 140g to now 50, next month 40, we seem to be holding from a cidp standpoint. Maybe it is puberty rebalancing the immune in conjunctionw/ ivig doing its job. So much literature focuses on the fact that if the gut is healthy, the other autoimmune goes into remission. If you think about it it makes sense in that we always say once you have one autoimmune, you get another. The problem is just which came first. Since we know that the gut contains 70-80% of immune system function, it seems logical that the gut needs to be healthy. However that can be achieved is the question. Just ideas, take them with a grain of salt.

    • February 15, 2010 at 10:36 pm

      OK so I am continuing to try to find negatives. While doing so I was able to answer one of my questions regarding my thought that if we use pig valves, make insulin and transmit h1n1 from pigs, the worms must be able to grow, reproduce, exist in us, contrary to what the doc s say. Well, apparently they only have a life expectancy of 2-3 weeks max. The time needed to do their stuff. As well, the reproduction cannot take place in the conditions any mammal can provide, as it needs cool moist soil. So those two things seem to have answered my main concerns. I am still in question why the trail stops in 2009. I am going to try and contact these docs on Wed. Tomorrow is treatments and a bunch of other stuff. The article I gathered this info from was a wikipedia that was last updated Jan 2010. That is a month ago!!! If this is real, it could help so many on the site with the chronic stomach issues, secondarily it would be amazing if it really could rebalance the immune system by the production of t cell regulator cells that evolve from the process. Maybe some people would relapse. But it mentioned a 72% remission rate. Of those that relapsed, they only had to re do the therapy which seems to be ingesting a pill every three weeks for 6 months. It was said that the side affects were minimal, some cramping. I asked the natro if the side affects are the dying off part, he said yes and that there is something to help with that. research research research. If it is possible, how awesome would it be to be free of the dangerous drugs that chrohns, ibd, etc have to use? if possible, ivig? I don’t understand how it could be so simple and not being done? Is there a catch?

    • Anonymous
      February 16, 2010 at 12:52 am

      Am really tired after hosting a family dinner party, but this is all very interesting. Keep on this & keep us posted. One never knows where the next possible & better treatment might come from…

    • Anonymous
      February 16, 2010 at 4:48 am

      I think the catch is our addiction to complicated medical treatments and our human aversion to parasites but I think we’re starting to get over that as a society. I know that if I presented myself at my family practitioner with early symptoms of CIDP and he suggested ingesting the eggs of a pig whip worm I would have immediately sought out another opinion. It’s only now that I am thoroughly sick of CIDP that I would even consider sucking down worms to potentially cure my disease. I’m not there yet but I’m not shivering anymore – I’m eating the yogurt and will switch to the pills when the yogurt is gone. I think I’d still rather provide my probiotics in a pill form without them being automatically generated by worms until and unless it is proven that they are more effective when provided by dying whip worms.

      My intestines are not terribly happy with the probiotics either – while I haven’t gotten a gut stabbing pain, I haven’t exactly been normal either… I’m giving it more time though… it’s only been about 2 weeks of consistently providing probiotics.


    • February 16, 2010 at 6:46 am

      Is your stomach presenting worse than usual with the probiotic addition? I am not sure how much you would have to eat to make a difference. The pill form might get you there faster. Lactobilla something was one of the recommended ones. I think I too will suggest the probiotic pill form first. Another interresting concept is this mastcototic enterocolitis spelling, upstairs without my paper work so I am winging it. It has to do with the gut, sounds like western medicines def of leaky gut. It deals with the overproduction of mast cell which increase hystamine ine the body which causes the gut and allergy symptoms to flair. Definitive dx done w/scope and biopsy. Not ready for that either. You need hc1 and hc2 inhibitors to address the overproduction. Guess what they are..hc1 allegra, benadryl etc and singular for inflamation and nexium, prilosec ranitadine (generic) which is a hc2 besides the stomach component. An hc2 is a second generation allergy med. So confusing

    • Anonymous
      February 16, 2010 at 1:27 pm

      not worse in the sense of more pain but worse in the sense of less reliable – more prone to sudden starts and stops – its possible this is just a settling in period or more likely my intestines don’t like yogurt seeing as it’s a milk product and I don’t digest them well, even with the addition of lactase… so the jury is still out on if it’s helping… too many variables at the moment but I guess all in all I’d rather be running to the bathroom than waking up with screaming intestinal pain in the middle of the night. 🙁

      P.S. I am also taking 15mg of OTC Previcid daily which could also account for the variable intestines
      P.S. (again… sorry, IVIg headache) I had a scope and biopsy done about 3 years ago, they found some non-cancerous polyps but no evidence of inflammation

    • February 16, 2010 at 1:35 pm

      What about the pill form of probiotics? That lactobillus word or something was one that kept coming up in all the articles I have read. I bet you are right about the yogurt upsetting your stomach. Besides you would probably literally have to eat bucket loads!! If you take any antibiotics, anyone who does, they advise taking assidopholys spelling!!! During and for three months post so as to maintain prober balance in the gut so that you do not get candida hence, leaky gut!!!

    • Anonymous
      February 17, 2010 at 12:04 am

      I, too, have been researching the intestinal health angle. I had found on the internet someone who had MFS multiple times (that’s what I had almost 2 1/2 years ago), and he attributed his MFS to leaky gut syndrome. While I was felling pretty recovered from the GBS/MFS, my goal was to prevent this from happening again. I know I ingested the campy bacteria, but I don’t know why my immune system reacted to it the way it did.

      I decided to research intestinal health. I ordered a bunch of books from Amazon, and found a doctor in my area who has a more holistic approach to health. This doctor also works with a practitioner of traditional chinese medicine.

      My doctor started out doing a number of tests, including a stool test. In general, my digestive health has been OK, but over the years I’ve become lactose intolerant. In my 20’s I was on antibiotics for a prolonged period, and I suspected that the antibiotics might have compromised my immune health by killing the good bacteria in my intestinal tract (70% of the immune system is in the intestinal tract)

      The stool tests showed that I had a parasite. We took care of that right away, and my doctor put me on probiotics, which I take every day.

      My doctor also suggested I take Betaine HcL, which is a source of hydrochloric acid. What I’ve read about and heard from my doctor is – if you don’t produce enough hydrochloric acid (as we age, production decreases), then things like bacteria and parasites pass through the stomach. The hydrochloric acid is the first line of defense for protecting the body from invaders, and if we don’t produce enough, invaders get in. I noticed a marked improvement in my digestion just using the Betaine HcL (which I would suggest taking under a doctor’s supervision, since if you take too much, you can do damage to your stomach lining).

      Interestingly, people who have reflux think they have excess hydrochloric acid, but in fact, research says they don’t have enough.

      Anyway, I also have been taking chinese herbs from the practitioner of traditional chinese medicine I mentioned earlier.

      My GBS/MFS residuals were pretty minor (or so I thought). If I exerted too much (a weekend in NY walking around caused me to be off one foot for a day and a half), I would have to rest whatever muscle was injured. Riding my exercise bike would cause little muscle pulls I’ve never experienced before. I tired more easily than before GBS/MFS, and the most I could do was 2 days in a row on the exercise bike.

      I know this sounds incredulous (even I had trouble believing it), but just a few weeks after starting to take the herbs, I was able to walk a good 5+ miles a day while on vacation last summer, without any residuals. And I am happy to say I have had no residuals whatsoever since last June. I can exercise 4 or 5 days in a row without any muscle exhaustion. In general, I feel better than even before the GBS/MFS. My energy is incredible, and I feel really grateful that all this work has paid off.

      In addition to the supplements and herbs I take, I have changed my diet. I too have been doing gluten free. After 7 months off gluten, I went back on to see if there was a difference. I did not notice anything negative when eating gluten, but now I limit it, because I’ve been enjoying the healthier lifestyle that comes with gluten-free.

      I’ve been taking herbs for 7 months, and at some point I will be off the herbs, because my body will have healed, and will no longer react to the herbs.

      One really important note. Many of you have probably taken that CPK test (tests muscle stress levels). I have it taken at my yearly neurological appt. Last year, my CPK was 167 (2 points above the normal range). This year it was 21. My neurologist called me with the results himself. I didn’t need the confirmation, because the number just reflected how I felt, but it was nice to see how my muscles improved.

      I hesitate to write all this, because I fear it will sound crazy or like I’m trying to sell something. But truthfully, I’ve been wanting to share my experience, because if other people can be helped or encouraged to keep looking for answers, then all the disclosure will have been worth it.

      In the end, I look at my GBS/MFS as a gift. I am really grateful for all the wonderful doctors and my herbalist, who have helped me along the way. My GBS/MFS has caused me to look at my health in a different way, and for that I can’t help but be grateful.

      I also thank you all for your stories. They have helped me along my journey.

      I wish you all abundant health and happiness on your journeys.

    • February 17, 2010 at 12:28 pm

      Lateley I am really believing the statement God does things for a reason. You NEVER post and today you posted here. It is like I am supposed to get a message. Thank you so much for having the courage to say what you feel, it is a rare gift. Honesty can sometimes beat you up as you somewhat expressed. I have taken my fair share of honesty knocks! This worm thing I am sure is freaking people out. I think you are a tribute to what I am leaning toward. I think it would be prudent to heal the gut with the herbs first as you did and see where that gets us. We will keep the worms in the dirt for now. Although when I see my son as miserable as he has been as of late, I am ready to try anything. Patients perserveres I hope. Thanks for taking the time to respond, your words are VERY hopeful.