Grape seed Juice, Diet, Th1/Th2 balance
AnonymousOctober 4, 2008 at 7:47 am
I was looking for info on grape seed extract, as it seems to be good for MS. There are no references for CIDP in the web, but I found grape seed extract shift Th1/Th2 balance to the Th1 side.
So we can get worst trying this.
In CIDP (and my spondylitis) we have too much Th1 (inflammatory component) and less Th2 (anti-inflammatory component). The ivig treatment shift the balance to the Th2 side, that is why it works.
This is quite different in MS and other autoimmune disease, so I wonder if for CIDP we should research and make up our own diet list.
I will start goggling this….
October 4, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Interesting. I would like to hear more when you have collected information.
When I was first diagnosed with CIDP 8 years ago the forum had a lot of members who were trying various diets and supplements. I found that adding grape seed extract to my very conservative supplement program really did make a noticable difference in how I felt. I still had CIDP – but I felt much stronger and energized.
I now take a commercial antioxidant pill that includes grape seed extract as well as grape skin, green tea, curcurim, etc along with a multivitamin and other supplements.
Thanks for your research,
AnonymousOctober 4, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Since my diagnoses of Graves and having the thyroid removed that I now have to follow a diet now. Which is the pitts because I really enjoyed some of those foods. But now I am on a strict diet! No more cabbage, califlower, brussel sprouts, soy products. And no chinese food! And I love these foods. They do something making goiterins and having now Hypothyroidism because of my surgery and meds I no longer am allowed these. First I was Hyperthyroidism. But when they do surgery you go into Hypo shortly afterwards and have to be careful not aggitating the hormones. Not really sure about the grape seed diet or foods for CIDP. That is a thought though. Never really thought about this until you mentioned it! I guess any kind of foods that would have the vitamins that help the nervous system. Things with lots of B-12 and Iron. Hmm! Interesting subject! Wished I could answer this one!
AnonymousOctober 5, 2008 at 8:09 am
I tried to join info about Th1/Th2 modulation, Drugs, Diet and life style.
Some info on the web is contradictory, like for Vitamin A and C, and fish oils, sugars.
LOW Th1/Th2 (Good for us. To avoid in cancer, asthma)
Drugs: ivig. Antibiotics. Sulfasalazine. Cortisol at low levels (cortisone). Anti-TNF drugs.
Sup: Fresh fish oil (Omega-3). Phytoestrogens. Zinc deficience.Soy lecithin.Folic acid. Vitamins E and B12.
Glucosamine Sulftate. Garlic. Royal Jelly. Melatonin.
Life: Sleep deprivation. Calorie restriction. Excessive exercise
RISE Th1/Th2 (To avoid in CIDP. Good for cancer, asthma, alergias)
Drugs: Interferon. Ciclosporin.Transfer Factor. Cortisol at high levels.
Sup/Diet: Grape seed extract. Lemon (citrus) peel. Shark Cartilage. Lactobacillus. Ginseng.
Vegetal Oils (Omega-6). Oxided fish oil (fryed). Shark oil (squalene).
Here are some pages about it;
AnonymousOctober 5, 2008 at 4:55 pm
[QUOTE=LindaH]Since my diagnoses of Graves and having the thyroid removed that I now have to follow a diet now. Which is the pitts because I really enjoyed some of those foods. But now I am on a strict diet! No more cabbage, califlower, brussel sprouts, soy products. And no chinese food! And I love these foods. They do something making goiterins and having now Hypothyroidism because of my surgery and meds I no longer am allowed these.
You are the first person I have ever heard that had to restrict foods. I don’t know your total situation so perhaps there is another reason…but most hypothyroid (includes those with and also without a thyroid) individuals tend to just limit the goitrogenic foods (and sometimes foods high in iodine, although not everyone reacts poorly to iodine) but not restrict. Testing pretty much takes care of any issues in thyroid levels rising or falling if one has too much on a regular basis (ie dose is increased or decreased depending on result).
AnonymousOctober 5, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I use to use GSE when I first was diagnosed (mistakingly) with Fibromyalgia. I was hoping that it would help with some of the pain. It didn’t, but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work with someone else as I think many of us have different needs. Interestingly thru the years I have discovered that I feel better if I eat properly and don’t eat sugar. Easier said than done as i have an addiction to sugar that rivals an alcoholics addiction to alcohol. So for me, I do believe that foods do make a difference in my daily life.
Some of those sites you have posted i think are interesting and kind of go along with what I have read. I joined a thyroid group (a somewhat alternative group) who has a big base (1000’s) of people of which many on it use cortisol in combination with a T3 thyroid reagent, and sometimes depending on the person they take other hormones such as DHEA or estrogen, etc. What does this have in common with us? If you knew their symptoms and compared many of the people’s symptoms on this forum you’d find them to be the 95+% the same. Those individuals on that thyroid list have basically resolved their symptoms. I suspect that because autoimmune diseases are so similar and interconnected that there is probably a lot of overlap in treatments. Of course everyone is different so what works for one person may not work for another. I know that T3 got rid of my pain, and decreased my tingling, gave me more feeling in fingers, along with a ton of other things…I believe that I am one of the thyroid insufficiency people. Unfortunately my thyroid med didn’t get optimized until ~3 months after I got sick this past spring and demyelinated.
The other thing that I find interesting is that some people who have CIDP take 5-10 mgs Prednisone on a daily basis. That quant is roughly the amount made normally daily by ones own adrenal glands….in the form of cortisol. Some Dr’s claim that autoimmune diseases are due to adrenal insufficiency (ie not enough cortisol being produced) and/or thryoid insufficiency.
Thanks for the info!
AnonymousOctober 5, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Hi Kristin! I was diagnosed with Thyroid Cancer but had Graves Disease also and didn’t know it .Plus I had a Multinodular Goiter and one of the nodules had cancer. I too have lupus and all summer long have been on high doses of steroids. 20mgs plus! I have very high cholesterol and not only having graves but was Cushingnoid from the steroids. Lets just say my hormones are out of whack. The sugar craving too I had something aweful and still do! I love the sugar! I before diagnosed was also diagnosed with Hypoglycemia. But have had that since I was a teen. Still have it! By what I see on my papers here, they have me on a Carbohydrate Diet! The Endocronologist also told me no Soy products, no cabbage, no brussel sprouts or califlower or broccoli. And told me to stay away from Chinese foods I guess because they have alot of Starch in their cooking. They gave me the diet before my surgery and this is what he wants me doing. I asked him why I could not have the veggies and he told me these particular vegetables cause goiterins and can mess up your thyroid levels. Now in a few weeks after my treatment my diet may change but right now, I’m not allowed these types of foods. Can have spinach, collards, string beans, tomatoes but no veggies above that I listed but can eat any other vegetable but have to stay away from those that I listed. I tried to find something online about these vegetables and a thyroid diet and did find something that the doctor mentioned. Still did not understand the concept of why these vegetables cause problems, but they do! I will go back online and see where I found that article and post it here for you to read! Before my surgery I was Hyperthyroid and now my thyroid has just been recently removed. So that will put me Hypo instead. Still not sure why I would go Hypo and confused about that too! Because I don’t have the thyroid gland anymore is probably why! I will try and retrieve what I found and post it online. So your thyroid caused your CIDP also? See I have CIDP and they told me it wasn’t lupus causing it but I was swearing up and down it was because I had this nerve damage before when I first got diagnosed before. But this type of nerve damage seems to be a little different. Burning in my hands and feet. Actually burning everywhere! Your thyroid caused your system to be demylenated? I have a demylenating neuropathy! Maybe this has been my problem here all along. How are they treating you for this problem? Especially for the demylenating problem! Can it even be treated or does it stay and never heal up? I was told that I will always be Hypo now instead of Hyper. But am still learning it all! I know Lupus very well but learning the Thyroid is another story! I did find an article about CIDP and the thyroid a while ago a read something but was not sure about the article.
Hope this answers some of your confusion here with me. I right now am still confused about it! The more I read the more confusing it gets. I’m just doing what the doctor ordered. Now let me see if I can find that article!
AnonymousOctober 5, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Here are the sites Kristen!
In fact I found quite a few interesting more and added it to the other sites I found. Thought you might find this interesting.
Hope this helps Kristen! The only thing I have not found yet is how they treat this kind of CIDP with the thyroid. So I don’t really know if I am going to get better or not! I guess this is where Duke Medical Center on November 6th decides my fate! We have to rule out Lupus an B-12 being the causes and then if it was the thyroid that was causing this these past 3 years then I am either treated or not treated as far as the CIDP goes. See I was in remission 6 years ago with my lupus and was doing great until 3 years ago! Then I had the B-12 issue and Lumbar Spinal Stenosis with 3 bad disk and had surgery. And then we still don’t know if the surgery itself is a factor here. I was doing to good right after that surgery and don’t know! I know some thyroid symptoms can be reversed but not sure about that CIDP. My doctor is telling me that if it’s the thyroid it can be reversed. But he’s letting Duke handle the nerve damage issue! So I am still lost on that one! Maybe I will get lucky and see this change too! I sure hope so!
AnonymousOctober 5, 2008 at 8:07 pm
[QUOTE=LindaH]I asked him why I could not have the veggies and he told me these particular vegetables cause goiterins and can mess up your thyroid levels…
Can have spinach…
I tried to find something online about these vegetables and a thyroid diet and did find something that the doctor mentioned. Still did not understand the concept of why these vegetables cause problems, but they do! …
Still not sure why I would go Hypo and confused about that too!…
So your thyroid caused your CIDP also? [/QUOTE]
Realize that I am not saying to go against what your Dr is saying…I just found it interesting in what you said before.
The veggies you mentioned, plus spinach, contain goitrogens which can cause a goiter (which you can no longer get as you are minus your thyroid) plus can make it more difficult for the thyroid to make it’s hormones. Generally, being thyroidless and having cancer, most Dr’s try to keep your thyroid hormones extra low so that cancer does not return. The goitrogenic foods would bring up your level of hormone, which is not what the dr wants. That said, if you did eat broccoli or other goitrogenic foods on a daily basis, proper testing of your thyroid level would note this and you’d compensate by being given a higher dose of med.
You are now hypoT because you no longer have a thyroid and are lacking thyroid hormone. Simplistically, HyperT is having too much thyroid hormone and hypoT is not having enough.
Lastly I do not know if my hypoT caused my CIDP. I do know the hypoT caused problems which one could note were CIDP symptoms and were fixed when given an adequate dose of thyroid med.
AnonymousOctober 6, 2008 at 6:24 am
Hi Kristen! This diet thing is somewhat confusing. I found another article saying that some doctors believe in this diet and others don’t about the vegetables. I got a copy of my labs a few weeks ago but not the recent ones before my surgery.
I showed a very high cholesterol level and it’s been high for years. It was at 275. There are two levels and the ranges for those levels are 0-149 and 100-199. The Trigclyerides were very high. And the glucose levels were 140H but I too have had my sugar levels drop very low in the past. I noticed right after my surgery that I was craving massive amounts of sugar. I wanted chocolate so bad it was no joke! LOL!
So I know one of the diets is due to Cholesterol and getting off of starchy foods and sugars. Low Carborhydrate Diet. Stinks too for I like Chinese foods and many of them have Soy and Starch types of foods especially the sauces. No fried foods either because of the high fat contents.
The vegetables though. I really don’t know why he insisted on me not being on them right now, but I will ask him again when I go in my next visit. Maybe it’s because they can act on the medications and cause levels. I am not sure about the vegetables. Just going to do what he says and then ask him my next visit. I know one diet has to do with Cholesterol though and Sugar.
Ohh! You mentioned a Thyroid site! I too was kind of interested in checking a site out and not sure of a good site. I joined a site and when I went in there it only had a few people in it and did not seem to be to active. Not many postings for several months. Can you give me a good site! The more I learn now about this the better! I too have TED and they checked me for that also. I have had the vision problems for a while. Blurred vision, double vision and eye muscle problems. Seeing the Opthamolgist in November also regarding the eyes. So anything I find out about the after surgery and what to expect with Hypo would be appeciated! Thanks Kristen!
AnonymousOctober 6, 2008 at 8:39 am
Hi Shirley! I have been taking Cholesterol meds and now on a diet too! They placed me on Lovastatin back in June because it was high then also! It’s actually gone down some. But still too high! They want me on both now! They also raised my Lovastatin up to 20mgs instead of 10. High cholesterol runs in my family. My mom has it, my sister, my nephew, my son and one daughter and myself. I was on a diet one time before and still had high levels. So now they want me doing both the diet and meds to see if they can get it lowered. My mother has cholesterol really bad. Hers is now controlled. But I guess mine is now out of whack! Just another pill to swallow! 😀
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